
Conservative professor of history and international relations at Boston University and twenty-three year veteran of the US Army, Andrew Bacevich, speaks with Amy Goodman about his new book The Limits of Power: The End of American Exceptionalism. A quote from the interview:
Well, I'm a conservative. And this is another one of those things that leads me to believe that not only is President Bush not a conservative but Senator McCain is not either. Of course there is evil in the world, and there is good in the world. But guess what? Some of the evil is right here. To view international politics through this lens of good and evil leads you to vastly oversimplify....and it also leads you to make reckless decisions.
Mr. Bacevich, who retired as a colonel from the US Army, lost his son in Iraq in 2007.
I admire Mr. Bacevich, and I found this interview especially interesting in the wake of my recent Why We Fight...Conservatism article. Although I disagree with Mr. Bacevich's characterization of the word "conservative", his perspective on the Iraq War and his position on the Bush administration are very close to my own.
The tacit bargain between our political leaders and the American people, which basically assumes that our culture of consumption, our refusal to save, our addiction to oil, as President Bush himself described it, that all of these things can be sustained indefinitely, if we can simply employ our military power in ways to shape the world to our liking.
Now, of course, what we found over the past five, six years is, our military power is really not nearly as great as many people imagined it to be back in the 1990s, and war has not become an effective instrument of politics, as many people imagined back in the 1990s.
I think the great majority of us basically have allowed ourselves to become seduced by this culture of consumption, of not taking seriously the notion that someday the bills come due, that you can't simply run up a line of credit that stretches from here to infinity. We don't want to look ourselves in the mirror. We don't want to recognize the need to make some changes in the way we live.
This is a plea for a resource allocation debate. IMO it is the entrenched interests, those he described as benefitting from the status quo of using military might, that resist changes in the way we live (inherently a conservative perspective). The less conservative point of view, which has been out of power, has not neglected to recognize the need for these changes. There are plans and optimism for changes.
The model for US exceptionalism through projection of military power (Reagan-style conservatism) may not be debated head on but I'm hopeful that the gradual implimentation of changes will divert further investments in that model. For instance - focus on using alternative energy reduces the assumed national interest in providing military protection for global carbon-based energy resources.
The US might attain exceptionalism by a trait other than projecting military might.
Hello Ms. Melony
The US might attain exceptionalism by a trait other than projecting military might.
Except that there are several countries that might beat us to it.
But my main concern is that the installation of alternative energy infrastructure would take years, maybe a decade. I worry that there simply isn't time to go forth with such an momentous task before the existing energy network becomes obsolete.
That is, of course, assuming that there were the will to do such a thing. The projection of military force described by Mr. Bacevich is, in my opinion, simply an extension of the effort to maintain the oligarchy's exclusive control over importing and selling energy resources and other fossil fuel derivatives. By the time these criminals are toppled (if such a thing is even possible) we will have run out of time.
I wish I could be more optimistic.
It is urgent that the will for such a change take root now. It is a good thing that conservatives such as Mr Bacevich are acknowledging the limits of US global force to squeeze out the continuation of the carbon based energy model.
The way I see it, given the will to do it, the shift to a green paradigm (vs supporting continued carbon burning) will indeed be incremental. As the green paradigm is extended there would be a gradual diminishing of the infrastructures that have grown up around the old carbon burning enterprises including the force projection that is now the hallmark of US exceptionalism.
We didn't take every horse and buggy out of commission when the automobile was introduced. The stables, blacksmiths and dirt roads were gradually replaced with gas stations, garages and paved roads. We know there are opportunities waiting for their moment to replace the forms of energy and the way they are distributed. This incrementalism allows for extending the franchise to incorporate the skill sets of those dependent on the old model so that the car makers transition to new models, the gasoline manufacturers and distributors reconfigure, the architects incorporate green design.
The enterprises that grow up around this will benefit by the engineering efforts of those early adopters who made a greater commitment to this transition. The enterprises that effect the engineering will create trade work, jobs that incorporate worker skills of installing and reconfiguring power lines, installing geo-thermal, solar & wind equipment, building the machines, appliances and gadgets that take advantage of alternative power sources.
During the 90's the US economy saw a burst of growth as computers were integrated to accelerate productivity. The tools of that productive growth gradually offshored and jobs went with them (computers, parts, writing code). Real wage growth stagnated as workers with computer equipped tools became more productive and the manufacture of those tools went offshore. In the next decade we could well see productive growth in industries that promise stronger local labor. The pipe trades, assemblers, fabricators, real craftspeople could be put back to work in productive long term jobs.
What are the consequences of the US loss of exceptionalism based on military force projection? I agree with the premise that this force is used to protect the oligarchies of the fossil fuels market (see US garrisons and global gas stations ). As the need to protect oil resources and distribution channels diminishes so too will the perceived need for global force projection.
We needn't confront and topple these oligarchies. They will transition willingly (for example note BP's green outlook) given the appropriate clear vision, leadership and incentives or they'll remain stoic buggy whip makers to a diminishing market.
Hi Melony,
Thanks for your extensive and thoughtful commentaries. It's much appreciated.
I hope that you're right. The scenario you lay out is far more hopeful. But...
What are the consequences of the US loss of exceptionalism based on military force projection? I agree with the premise that this force is used to protect the oligarchies of the fossil fuels market (see US garrisons and global gas stations ). As the need to protect oil resources and distribution channels diminishes so too will the perceived need for global force projection.
I think, all things being equal, your prediction is quite reasonable. Market forces alone would bring your predictions about. But, to generalize, all things are not equal. I'm not saying that alternative energy systems and economies aren't feasible. They are, and right now. But there are other factors involved that make it problematic.
First, there probably isn't enough oil left to generate a slow transition to another paradigm. Even if there were, the moment that oil production is perceived to pass peak production (something that may have already happened), the price hikes associated with diminishing production will make the function of current Western economies impossible. Oil will be too expensive to be useful. The United States, especially, is utterly dependent on cheap, plentiful liquid fuel. Remove that supply for even a few months and it will have catastrophic effects.
This would be further exacerbated by shortages of other fossil fuel derivatives, including petrol-based fertilizers for farming, the supply of petrol-based plastics and petrol-based industrial chemicals.
Second, American cities are not centralized. They're spread out like military bases, making the toll on an alternative energy economy all the greater. You'd have to relocate millions from the suburbs and from the countryside into smaller, more compact urban areas, an enormous undertaking.
We needn't confront and topple these oligarchies. They will transition willingly (for example note BP's green outlook) given the appropriate clear vision, leadership and incentives or they'll remain stoic buggy whip makers to a diminishing market.
Third, the creation of an alternative energy infrastructure, however gradual, requires the use of the previously extant infrastructure, which is completely dependent on oil. No oil, no production, of either traditional or alternative infrastructure, at least until production capabilities adapt to the new paradigm.
Fourth, the problem with the entrenched oligarchy is that it is and has been artificially creating and conserving the current, oil-based economy for decades, and is determined to continue doing this. The war in Iraq is obviously a seizure of Iraq's oil assets, but less known is that the attack on Afghanistan was also an attempt to control an overland pipeline route that bypasses Iran.
Fifth, the assumption of a paradigm shift from traditional to alternative energy assumes the relative stability of economies, especially the American economy. Most of the world's cash reserves are enumerated in dollars, making an American economic collapse particularly scary, since it would also bring about enormous losses for every nation that has dollar investments. Nor can nations quickly shift to alternative currencies, since such a move would so further devalue the dollar as to render both current investments worthless and bring about an American economic collapse.
That said, the American economy is currently extremely unstable. It would be bad enough if the problem were simply an enormous national debt, a growing economic deficit and a gradually devalued dollar. BUT, we are facing a series of bad investments brought about by massive deregulation of American financial systems. The housing crisis is simply the first domino, and hasn't finished playing out yet. Similar crises exist with other lending sectors, like education loans and credit cards, where borrowers took on more debt than they could reasonably repay.
Further, there is a shrinking middle class, a removal of production capability to the developing world and a shift of service economy sectors to other parts of the world. The group of people that the rich would sell products to is shrinking, the service economy that the American nation has embraced is also outsourced and production capacity that would allow us to recover from economic stagnation is gone. We have no economic base. Our economy is running on stock market gambling, war, borrowed money and imported, second rate Chinese products.
To my mind, the question is not IF there will be an economic collapse but WHEN. And when that collapse occurs, those strengths that enabled our recovery at the end of the Great Depression have been systematically dismantled and exported.
Of course, it IS possible to avoid this, or to cushion the long-term effects, but that would require a mobilization of human capacity that would rival the Second World War for its size and complexity. We would have to blanket revoke most corporate charters, remove corporate person-hood from our legal code, seize and nationalize a large number of corporate assets, eliminate our massive intelligence apparatus, massively shrink the size of our military and transform our economy into a social-welfare-style technocracy, with heavy regulation, living wages, income caps and extensive public services. We'd have to completely rebuild our mass-transit system, encourage the creation of local food economies...a lot.
I'm not optimistic.
Bacevich also recently spoke with Terry Gross on NPR's Fresh Air.
We would have to blanket revoke most corporate charters, remove corporate person-hood from our legal code, seize and nationalize a large number of corporate assets, eliminate our massive intelligence apparatus, massively shrink the size of our military and transform our economy into a social-welfare-style technocracy, with heavy regulation, living wages, income caps and extensive public services. We'd have to completely rebuild our mass-transit system, encourage the creation of local food economies...a lot.
check! on the seizure and nationalization of substantial corporate assets - we're on our way toward innovating the new American exceptionalism ; )
Would it that were true! This is not a seizure, but an ostensible buy out of bad investments, and it's awfully fishy. It almost seems as if the Bush regime is attempting to move as much public money into the private sector as possible before some critical date (and I don't mean simply the date on which the economy crashes, now virtually a certainty). No, this is far more suspicious. People think I'm paranoid, but it doesn't mean they aren't after me.
Wherever it is this sorry and sordid period in American history is leading us, we're almost there.
Probably semantics but by "seizures" I was thinking - Washington Mutual , Fannie & Freddie .
Along with the potential to buy up the bad paper the US gov't could control the bulk of mortgages throughout the US, the largest and most troubled aspect of the credit system.
The excuse to transfer US credit to private hands is to provide liquidity, grease the wheels of the private system, that is the distribution system for dollars, keep tellers at the windows, ATMs spitting out cash, direct deposit transfers flowing. So the gov't gave JP Morgan/Chase the credit to assume the assets of Bear Stearns and Washington Mutual.
Considering the varying degrees of collaboration between public & private institutions this will be cited as a fascist demonstration project. Not really the type of exceptionalism for which I'm hoping the US might be recognized.
Bill Moyers interviewed Bacevich on this book. I saw a portion of it yesterday.
Is an imperial presidency destroying what America stands for? Bill Moyers sits down with history and international relations expert and former US Army Colonel Andrew J. Bacevich who identifies three major problems facing our democracy: the crises of economy, government and militarism, and calls for a redefinition of the American way of life
I'll watch the whole thing (or read the transcript) here .
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